Pursuing truth and not traditions...
“Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.” –1 Timothy 4:16
Okay. Though I do want to precise that I do not want to fight.
redeeming our culture through our culture.
Interesting, but can I have a chapter and verse on this quote?Okay, I'm being coy, but the point is an important one. Christian, too often, quote these cute sayings, that are TOTALLY unscriptural, and quote them as if it were Scripture. "God helps those who help themselves" or "Godliness and cleanliness" are but two other examples I can think of. Now, as regards to your quote, consider:
"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." (1 John 2:15)
Back the calendar 50 years (when the church was stronger), and what you would see, Julianne, is Christians taking a stand against rock music. It was and is sensual and carnal, not spiritual.
In this "modern age", the church has lost a lot of it's savour, and one of the chief reasons: C-O-M-P-R-O-M-I-S-E. Instead of shunning the world and it's ways, Christians started to mix the truth with the methods and styles of the world. This is the Laodicean syndrome (Revelation 3:14-18).
The end result of this has been church divisions (over musical style for church service), a stumbling-block for the youth who being exposed to a "christianized" rock music becomes interested in the "real thing", and the loss of true, spiritual worship in church services (because the emphasis becomes: "man! that band rocks!" instead of true, heartfelt worship.
These facts are indisputable, and while I know I will most likely get a good shalacking by some who visit your blog, I stand by the Truth.
Finally, as a parting shot, consider the fruits of "real rock": drugs (the beatles), rebellion (jimmy hendrix), sexual immorality (marilyn manson), suicide (nirvana), violence (metallica)... etc. Should Christians be employing anything that even looks like rock considering it's track record?
My 0.25$ (you got even more than what you asked...LOL)
Oh! and just to add a precision, I am not 70 years old, so it's not like I am incapable of liking rock music. Quite on the contrary. I still struggle (a lot) to not listen to my old music which included such rock bands as the Smashing Pumpkins, Blur, U2, Radiohead... etc.
I speak with not only "theoritical knowledge", but quite a baggage of "practical".
I really respect your stand on many issues, so, obviously I'm going to take what you said and really think and pray about it. What you wrote is good, and biblical and I know I agree with everything you said, it's just hard to change the way you've thought about something for so long. How do you define "rock" music? I mean where do you draw the line? Should you draw a line?
ps- I've always been turned off by Christians who want to "stoop" to the level of the world to make the Truth more appealing.(Not that I don't do it sometimes though.) Why should music be any different?
Wow Julianne, you impress me, you really do. Most saints go into full "self-justification" mode when it comes to this subject. I praise God for His great workings in your life.
How do you define "rock" music? I mean where do you draw the line? Should you draw a line?
If I may, I'll answer these questions with the following questions:
How do you define "immorality"? I mean where do you draw the line? Should you draw a line?
Some play games with these questions. They "fool around" but they stay clear of sexual intercourse, and then profess not being "immoral". I know you would find that type of reasoning foolish, and you would be quite correct. The thing is, one can use the EXACT same reasoning with music.
Does it sound like rock? Yes? Then it's rock.
Confession: While these comments probably makes me seem very "spiritual", I have very little success in this area. I probably have more success at resisting lust than resisting rock music, and that's saying a lot. Still, I will not make any excuses. It's wordly, it's wicked, therefore, it's got to go!
I have to shape up.
Music is a very VERY powerful medium, my dear sister, you may find that the devil has found a foot-hold in your life also, through his tool, rock music.
Another question: why is it only "rock" music that we should "stay away from?" What about most 70's (my favorite era for musci) artists (simon & garfunkel, mclean, mccartney, etc) who wern't so much into "rock" as maybe "folk?" These guys did not make godly lifestyle decisions either, but they don't get as bad of a "rap," pardon the expression. What music SHOULD we listen to and why? Also, what about "rock" which I think is glorifying and worshipful to God, like the Newsboys' worship albums, Third Day, Steve Camp (is his new stuff rock?), Tree63, Chris Tomlin, etc.?
Okay, no offence Julianne, but the 70s had a culture that was so totally antagonistic to the church, perhaps affection towards that culture is a something you may like to re-evaluate.
While rock is definitely the chief musical tool of the devil for the last 50 years, you are right, there are plenty of other musical styles which do not glorify God, they do however have an appeal to the flesh. That being said, you won't find it hard to find musicians that played a "clean" musical style who were wicked. My answer to that is: as a whole, and generaly speaking, how many "folk" singers have you heard of doing half of the wickedness that MOST rock stars do?
You will find that while other musical styles will have their wicked musicians, rock will be far ahead in the wickedness scale.
Also, what about "rock" which I think is glorifying and worshipful to God, like the Newsboys' worship albums, Third Day, Steve Camp (is his new stuff rock?), Tree63, Chris Tomlin, etc.?
I use to listen to these guys to, and guess what? It's not worship, nor do I believe that they glorify God anymore (there was a time I use to believe as you do). Why? Because I can't accept that God is glorified by a band that aims to look, sound and feel like the Green Days, the Cakes and the U2s of the world.
I would love for you to hear our Lord's Day worship, Julianne. Now, that's worship! We only use hymns that are actually based on Scripture, and that are filled with the wonderful Truths of the Word. None of the: "I love you Lord... I love you... OOOOHHH!!! I looooove you!" That isn't worship. Read the words from the words of "Rock of Ages, Cleft for Me" by Augustus Toplady; now that's worship! Oh! and no wild electric guitar solos in it either.
Think about it Julianne... I will agree that some of the old hymns/psalms don't have the fleshly appeal as today's "christian rock music", but that's the point, isn't it?
We sing the great songs of the past at my church too. Wonderful hymns that are deep and rich with truth and the Cross. These are my favorite songs. However, as of right now, I believe people like Chris Tomlin aren't doing what their doing to sound like anything or anyone. They just simply want to praise and glorify God. The concert was so God-centered. These are definitely things to think about though. Thanks, Rand.
I would agree with you Juli. The Chris Tomlin concert was the most God-glorifying concert I have ever been to. I wish we could have kept on doing it all night!
My favorite Brazil Christian rock band!!!
12 comments:
Rock that is Christian?
Hmmm... I don't know.
It's about "redeeming our culture through our culture."
I want your $.05, Rand.
"I want your $.05, Rand.
Okay. Though I do want to precise that I do not want to fight.
redeeming our culture through our culture.
Interesting, but can I have a chapter and verse on this quote?Okay, I'm being coy, but the point is an important one. Christian, too often, quote these cute sayings, that are TOTALLY unscriptural, and quote them as if it were Scripture. "God helps those who help themselves" or "Godliness and cleanliness" are but two other examples I can think of. Now, as regards to your quote, consider:
"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." (1 John 2:15)
Back the calendar 50 years (when the church was stronger), and what you would see, Julianne, is Christians taking a stand against rock music. It was and is sensual and carnal, not spiritual.
In this "modern age", the church has lost a lot of it's savour, and one of the chief reasons: C-O-M-P-R-O-M-I-S-E. Instead of shunning the world and it's ways, Christians started to mix the truth with the methods and styles of the world. This is the Laodicean syndrome (Revelation 3:14-18).
The end result of this has been church divisions (over musical style for church service), a stumbling-block for the youth who being exposed to a "christianized" rock music becomes interested in the "real thing", and the loss of true, spiritual worship in church services (because the emphasis becomes: "man! that band rocks!" instead of true, heartfelt worship.
These facts are indisputable, and while I know I will most likely get a good shalacking by some who visit your blog, I stand by the Truth.
Finally, as a parting shot, consider the fruits of "real rock": drugs (the beatles), rebellion (jimmy hendrix), sexual immorality (marilyn manson), suicide (nirvana), violence (metallica)... etc. Should Christians be employing anything that even looks like rock considering it's track record?
My 0.25$ (you got even more than what you asked...LOL)
Oh! and just to add a precision, I am not 70 years old, so it's not like I am incapable of liking rock music. Quite on the contrary. I still struggle (a lot) to not listen to my old music which included such rock bands as the Smashing Pumpkins, Blur, U2, Radiohead... etc.
I speak with not only "theoritical knowledge", but quite a baggage of "practical".
Take care,
Rand
I really respect your stand on many issues, so, obviously I'm going to take what you said and really think and pray about it. What you wrote is good, and biblical and I know I agree with everything you said, it's just hard to change the way you've thought about something for so long. How do you define "rock" music? I mean where do you draw the line? Should you draw a line?
ps- I've always been turned off by Christians who want to "stoop" to the level of the world to make the Truth more appealing.(Not that I don't do it sometimes though.) Why should music be any different?
Wow Julianne, you impress me, you really do. Most saints go into full "self-justification" mode when it comes to this subject. I praise God for His great workings in your life.
How do you define "rock" music? I mean where do you draw the line? Should you draw a line?
If I may, I'll answer these questions with the following questions:
How do you define "immorality"? I mean where do you draw the line? Should you draw a line?
Some play games with these questions. They "fool around" but they stay clear of sexual intercourse, and then profess not being "immoral". I know you would find that type of reasoning foolish, and you would be quite correct. The thing is, one can use the EXACT same reasoning with music.
Does it sound like rock? Yes? Then it's rock.
Confession: While these comments probably makes me seem very "spiritual", I have very little success in this area. I probably have more success at resisting lust than resisting rock music, and that's saying a lot. Still, I will not make any excuses. It's wordly, it's wicked, therefore, it's got to go!
I have to shape up.
Music is a very VERY powerful medium, my dear sister, you may find that the devil has found a foot-hold in your life also, through his tool, rock music.
God help us. (2 Corinthians 13:14)
Another question: why is it only "rock" music that we should "stay away from?" What about most 70's (my favorite era for musci) artists (simon & garfunkel, mclean, mccartney, etc) who wern't so much into "rock" as maybe "folk?" These guys did not make godly lifestyle decisions either, but they don't get as bad of a "rap," pardon the expression. What music SHOULD we listen to and why? Also, what about "rock" which I think is glorifying and worshipful to God, like the Newsboys' worship albums, Third Day, Steve Camp (is his new stuff rock?), Tree63, Chris Tomlin, etc.?
Okay, no offence Julianne, but the 70s had a culture that was so totally antagonistic to the church, perhaps affection towards that culture is a something you may like to re-evaluate.
While rock is definitely the chief musical tool of the devil for the last 50 years, you are right, there are plenty of other musical styles which do not glorify God, they do however have an appeal to the flesh. That being said, you won't find it hard to find musicians that played a "clean" musical style who were wicked. My answer to that is: as a whole, and generaly speaking, how many "folk" singers have you heard of doing half of the wickedness that MOST rock stars do?
You will find that while other musical styles will have their wicked musicians, rock will be far ahead in the wickedness scale.
Also, what about "rock" which I think is glorifying and worshipful to God, like the Newsboys' worship albums, Third Day, Steve Camp (is his new stuff rock?), Tree63, Chris Tomlin, etc.?
I use to listen to these guys to, and guess what? It's not worship, nor do I believe that they glorify God anymore (there was a time I use to believe as you do). Why? Because I can't accept that God is glorified by a band that aims to look, sound and feel like the Green Days, the Cakes and the U2s of the world.
I would love for you to hear our Lord's Day worship, Julianne. Now, that's worship! We only use hymns that are actually based on Scripture, and that are filled with the wonderful Truths of the Word. None of the: "I love you Lord... I love you... OOOOHHH!!! I looooove you!" That isn't worship. Read the words from the words of "Rock of Ages, Cleft for Me" by Augustus Toplady; now that's worship! Oh! and no wild electric guitar solos in it either.
Think about it Julianne... I will agree that some of the old hymns/psalms don't have the fleshly appeal as today's "christian rock music", but that's the point, isn't it?
Later,
Rand
We sing the great songs of the past at my church too. Wonderful hymns that are deep and rich with truth and the Cross. These are my favorite songs. However, as of right now, I believe people like Chris Tomlin aren't doing what their doing to sound like anything or anyone. They just simply want to praise and glorify God. The concert was so God-centered. These are definitely things to think about though. Thanks, Rand.
I would agree with you Juli. The Chris Tomlin concert was the most God-glorifying concert I have ever been to. I wish we could have kept on doing it all night!
Hi David,
Sorry I have taken so long to get back to you. The only contact for 3 Powers is http://www.flogao.com.br/3powers
What part of Brasil is your wife from?
Post a Comment