Pursuing truth and not traditions...
“Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.” –1 Timothy 4:16
My brother has a very high powered sniper rifle. If you get me the list of the 5,816 people, I'll see what I can do. However, If I complete the mission you have to make me your V.P.
With comments such as those in this particular era of illegal George Bush wire-tapping and domestic spying programs, you could wind up pitiously crying "I was just joking!" while they change the sheets in your windowless Gitmo Bay cell. (fresh Fish!...fresh Fish!...fresh Fish!...)
Ohh the poor little prisoners dont' have any windows. Maybe the air conditioning is one degree off. I guess the thousands of shoes donated by Nike, the prayer mats, and the Qur'ans are not enough.
Each detainee's cell has a sink installed low to the ground, "to make it easier for the detainees to wash their feet" before Muslim prayer, Saar reports. Detainees get "two hot halal, or religiously correct, meals" a day in addition to an MRE (meal ready to eat). Loudspeakers broadcast the Muslims' call to prayer five times a day.
Every detainee gets a prayer mat, cap and Koran. Every cell has a stenciled arrow pointing toward Mecca. Moreover, Gitmo's library -- yes, library -- is stocked with Jihadi books. "I was surprised that we'd be making that concession to the religious zealotry of the terrorists," Saar admits. "[I]t seemed to me that the camp command was helping to facilitate the terrorists' religious devotion." Saar notes that one FBI special agent involved in interrogations even grew a beard like the detainees "as a sort of show of respect for their faith."
Meanwhile, our own MPs have endured little-publicized abuse at the hands of manipulative, hate-mongering enemy combatants. Detainees have spit on and hurled water, urine and feces on the MPs. Causing disturbances is a source of entertainment for detainees who, as Gen. Richard Myers points out, "would turn right around and try to slit our throats, slit our children's throats" if released.
Tell ya what W.H,why don't you invite them to your house to live?
Thanks for the editorial, but I'm aware of what's going on in Cuba, Iraq, and Afghanistan. I happen to be supportive, in many ways, of the military, since my family is one containing a plethora of decorated Army officers dating from present day back to the Civil War. On the other hand, I always find it to be both sad and amazing that eager, undergraduate would-be theologians are willing to spend countless hours on blogs or MySpace mulling over everything from legitimate debate to doctrinal minutia hoping to be taken seriously by any doctoral candidates within earshot. Unfortunately, when a true test of one's "spirituality" is confronted (being hated and abused by individuals who are utterly dead, spiritually, and who are mystifyingly angry at being quarantined on a small island without trials thousands of miles from home) all of Christ's teachings regarding how one should react in exactly that scenario are utterly ignored in favor of reigning public sentiment: hatred and loathing of these detainees. How unfortunate that we all are so quick to "...draw near Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me." I see no other explanation for the Church's willingness to adopt Republican, war-mongering values first, when Christ calls it to peace and love above all else.
I agree, can't we all be friends? At least we know Julianne will serve her office well when she becomes President.
Btw, humility is always key and take Ephesians 4:29 to heart.
W.H. Conner: The military quarantined the detainees, not the Church. Why should we expect them to show peace and love? Many in the military are in need of the true gospel themselves.
Yes, that happens to be my point. The Church has fallen lock-step politically with the government; some even claiming that Bush and his ideals are ordained by God, thereby giving him a carte blanche as Commander in Chief to create and enforce foreign policies which are contrary to Christ's teachings, yet ironically embraced by a Church who's language of faith has been hijacked in order to gain the votes necessary to elect him in the first place. It's Christians who should be setting the example when it comes to attitudes toward people who consider themselves our enemies, not the military, per se.
If I had the power I would bring back HUAC House Committee on Un-American Activities, and Gen Douglas Macarthur would be raised from the Dead to be our president. My Grandfather actually watched him slap a soldier around.
Conner, lol, you prefer us to be Democrats? On the other hand, you have all the Democratic, peace-loving hippies laying in front of our war tanks and passing peace signs around... how sweet.
Julianne... 2 Timothy? Are you trying to exercise authority over me? (I'm just kidding) When are you coming baaa-haaack *starts whining* ??? TMC needs you, Julianne. You might be the only girl to speak up in Theology classes. Oh wait, clarification: you might be the only intelligible girl to speak up in our theology classes. I'm not trying to stereo-type, but it seems that doctrinally sound, solid, and--dare I say--reformed girls are very hard to find.
Anyway, I'm kind of hyper tonight. I need to go to sleep. So, I think I will... God bless you all, and long live Hillary Clinton (I'm just kidding... again)!!!
*thinks he should have laid off the cookie cake*
By the way, Conner, no offense, but way-to take a verse out of context without even quoting where its found (two thumbs up!).
No offense taken, since I apparently assumed that those who frequent a blog such as this are generally aware of where often quoted passages from scripture are found. If not, I was quoting Mark 7:6, which has Christ quoting Isaiah to the Pharisees re. their penchant for criticizing His desciples over fine points of the law. Within a broader context, Christ's point was that God considers the notion of paying lip-service to Him by absorbing onesself in details which are considered essential, while ignoring that which He feels is most important(love, I Cor. 13, of course) to be an illegitimate pursuit. The passage was used well within that context in the modern application above, considering the current popularity of churches adopting political agendas during services, singing cheesy "praise" songs in the same breath, and all the while mocking principles nearest to the heart of Christ, peace included. I'm afraid that more than hippies are peace-loving, and that we've reached a dark day if Christians feel comfortable openly advocating for avoiding peace and hating our "enemies".
............................. so, Jules, perhaps you should consider looking into Westminster California instead of TMC?...... Just kidding... (that would mean you would be getting a Reformation Study Bible instead of the Big Mac Study Bible), but the surf is good in San Diego from what I have heard. Something to take into consideration.
Although, if you did go to Westminster, that would make it much more difficult for us to convert you to pre-millennial dispensationalism. On the other hand, there would be a possibility that you would convert us to be amillennial covenantal theologians.
San Diego beaches are just better than the LA area, anyway...free parking, a lot fewer tourists, cooler shops...Even Huntington is kind of becoming a little Disney-esque...
The Wedge... lol... yeah... you really don't want to surf at The Wedge. The waves are huge, but the water is shallow (not a good combination). It's more for body boarding. Although, the rest of Newport Beach is a decent place to surf.
Conner, not seeing the "modern day application" in that... and you really shouldn't assume to much by throwing Scripture passages around (it helps people turn to the passage and check the context themselves, rather than placing your words above God's whole Word; context is key, as I'm sure you would agree). Granted, we shouldn't "hate" our enemies, but I am tired of all this peace mumbo-jumbo. When Jesus spoke of peace, he was speaking of individual Christian lives... not the role of the government or the actions of a military force.
On a different note, everyone: HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY (or, for many, HAPPY SINGLENESS AWARENESS DAY)! I'm less hyper today, but still, the cookie cake was really good...
I'm no fan of scripture flinging, nor am I in a habit of deciding whatever context I choose to place on a passage is suddenly conveniently what it means. I stand by my earlier comments, but we'll agree to disagree and move on in an amicable way...
Julianne,
I got thumped good at the Wedge once and broke a board. T and Z is right...it's good there for boogey boarding, but not my favorite...I prefer OB...
(sigh...) My point was simply that it's possible and perfectly legitimate to draw general principles from scripture to guide the attitudes and actions of a believer (II Tim. 3:16). I in no way attempted to cite passages which I feel govern how or when military force is used, but rather addressed a pervasive attitude among many Christians that it's ok to hate and despise people, as long as they're our enemies. I'm the first person to examine the context of that which I'm using, and the last to go around judging or beating people with the same. Matthew 5 and Romans 12 speak specifically to the believer's responsibility to his/her enemies, and need little contextualizing. Applying the Word in this manner is in no way controversial, and has always,in fact, been done.
No O, I don't believe how one exegetes a passage of Holy scripture is going in circles?
First of all I made a little joke about sniping of 5,816 people so Julianne could be pres. W.H. was the one who started spewing about Bushes spying.
Be that as it may, I don't hate the throat sliters at gitmo. I long for them to repent. Just watch some d.v.d.'s put out by "Voice of The Marters" about the Middle East
She meant "The Wedge", which is right next to Newport Beach (still considered part of the same beach) is for die-hard surfers only. The reason being that the waves at The Wedge are large, but the water is shallow. Even the best surfers may break their boards or perhaps get injured. It is suited more for body boarders.
I was about to say something similar... Julianne, don't be me... get to posting, girl (just kidding). By the way, if you do decide to attend TMC, is it next semester that you were looking at coming?
So far, Dan, I'm actually only dispensational in the sense of recognizing Israel as a nation (I don't see the church as completely taking the place of Israel). Then again, John Piper also believes that, but I think he believes it will be a remnant and not all of Israel that is saved (a continuity of salvation between the OT and NT). Him and MacArthur certainly differ on many points, but, as of now, I can't tell you for sure who I agree with, since I haven't studied it to the degree I would like to. So, for the record, I can't really say I'm dispensational right now, but I do believe that Israel is distinct from the church.
Adam: Whether one agrees with all the points is not the issue. I have not studied it indepth either, but my point is immediate indoctrination. Was it really funny? The whole point of this comment is to have Julianne post something new. Perhaps, I should start preaching on these comments. Some of my best exhortations are usually posted in these comments and yes, you have my permission to use my quotes for your Bible Study.
Julianne: If you do not post something new, there may be a delay in the shipment of your Johnny Mac Study Bible.
62 comments:
u crack me up.
oh by the way, do you have AOL instant message? My screenname is joannabannana84. yes- banana is spelled wrong, but that is my name nonetheless.
HA!! Awesome. I'll be looking forward to seeing how that works out...
President of the United States? How about President of the Republic of California, if we were to secede from the U.S.? :D
My brother has a very high powered sniper rifle. If you get me the list of the 5,816 people, I'll see what I can do. However, If I complete the mission you have to make me your V.P.
I'd hate to be the person who is number 5,815.
Carson,
With comments such as those in this particular era of illegal George Bush wire-tapping and domestic spying programs, you could wind up pitiously crying "I was just joking!" while they change the sheets in your windowless Gitmo Bay cell. (fresh Fish!...fresh Fish!...fresh Fish!...)
Ohh the poor little prisoners dont' have any windows. Maybe the air conditioning is one degree off. I guess the thousands of shoes donated by Nike, the prayer mats, and the Qur'ans are not enough.
Each detainee's cell has a sink installed low to the ground, "to make it easier for the detainees to wash their feet" before Muslim prayer, Saar reports. Detainees get "two hot halal, or religiously correct, meals" a day in addition to an MRE (meal ready to eat). Loudspeakers broadcast the Muslims' call to prayer five times a day.
Every detainee gets a prayer mat, cap and Koran. Every cell has a stenciled arrow pointing toward Mecca. Moreover, Gitmo's library -- yes, library -- is stocked with Jihadi books. "I was surprised that we'd be making that concession to the religious zealotry of the terrorists," Saar admits. "[I]t seemed to me that the camp command was helping to facilitate the terrorists' religious devotion." Saar notes that one FBI special agent involved in interrogations even grew a beard like the detainees "as a sort of show of respect for their faith."
Meanwhile, our own MPs have endured little-publicized abuse at the hands of manipulative, hate-mongering enemy combatants. Detainees have spit on and hurled water, urine and feces on the MPs. Causing disturbances is a source of entertainment for detainees who, as Gen. Richard Myers points out, "would turn right around and try to slit our throats, slit our children's throats" if released.
Tell ya what W.H,why don't you invite them to your house to live?
Sounds like Disneyland.
I am 5844, but I moved you up. Congratulations potential Miss President. I have to support my future Brazilian compatriot! :)>+
Carson,
Thanks for the editorial, but I'm aware of what's going on in Cuba, Iraq, and Afghanistan. I happen to be supportive, in many ways, of the military, since my family is one containing a plethora of decorated Army officers dating from present day back to the Civil War. On the other hand, I always find it to be both sad and amazing that eager, undergraduate would-be theologians are willing to spend countless hours on blogs or MySpace mulling over everything from legitimate debate to doctrinal minutia hoping to be taken seriously by any doctoral candidates within earshot. Unfortunately, when a true test of one's "spirituality" is confronted (being hated and abused by individuals who are utterly dead, spiritually, and who are mystifyingly angry at being quarantined on a small island without trials thousands of miles from home) all of Christ's teachings regarding how one should react in exactly that scenario are utterly ignored in favor of reigning public sentiment: hatred and loathing of these detainees. How unfortunate that we all are so quick to "...draw near Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me." I see no other explanation for the Church's willingness to adopt Republican, war-mongering values first, when Christ calls it to peace and love above all else.
I agree, can't we all be friends? At least we know Julianne will serve her office well when she becomes President.
Btw, humility is always key and take Ephesians 4:29 to heart.
W.H. Conner: The military quarantined the detainees, not the Church. Why should we expect them to show peace and love? Many in the military are in need of the true gospel themselves.
Debate and blogging do not mix well. Maybe somebody should just throw down the gaunlet.
T and Z...
Yes, that happens to be my point. The Church has fallen lock-step politically with the government; some even claiming that Bush and his ideals are ordained by God, thereby giving him a carte blanche as Commander in Chief to create and enforce foreign policies which are contrary to Christ's teachings, yet ironically embraced by a Church who's language of faith has been hijacked in order to gain the votes necessary to elect him in the first place. It's Christians who should be setting the example when it comes to attitudes toward people who consider themselves our enemies, not the military, per se.
By the way, my particular views on things don't keep me from feeling friendly toward any of you, regardless of whether we agree.
W.H. Conner: That's perfectly acceptable, as I have godly Christian friends who are staunch Democrats. :)
As for me personally, I'd rather endorse oligarchy... :D
I prefer Anarchy.
You little anarchist, you.
If I had the power I would bring back HUAC House Committee on Un-American Activities, and Gen Douglas Macarthur would be raised from the Dead to be our president. My Grandfather actually watched him slap a soldier around.
How's that for a war mongering republican?
Conner, lol, you prefer us to be Democrats? On the other hand, you have all the Democratic, peace-loving hippies laying in front of our war tanks and passing peace signs around... how sweet.
Julianne... 2 Timothy? Are you trying to exercise authority over me? (I'm just kidding) When are you coming baaa-haaack *starts whining* ??? TMC needs you, Julianne. You might be the only girl to speak up in Theology classes. Oh wait, clarification: you might be the only intelligible girl to speak up in our theology classes. I'm not trying to stereo-type, but it seems that doctrinally sound, solid, and--dare I say--reformed girls are very hard to find.
Anyway, I'm kind of hyper tonight. I need to go to sleep. So, I think I will... God bless you all, and long live Hillary Clinton (I'm just kidding... again)!!!
*thinks he should have laid off the cookie cake*
By the way, Conner, no offense, but way-to take a verse out of context without even quoting where its found (two thumbs up!).
Adam,
No offense taken, since I apparently assumed that those who frequent a blog such as this are generally aware of where often quoted passages from scripture are found. If not, I was quoting Mark 7:6, which has Christ quoting Isaiah to the Pharisees re. their penchant for criticizing His desciples over fine points of the law. Within a broader context, Christ's point was that God considers the notion of paying lip-service to Him by absorbing onesself in details which are considered essential, while ignoring that which He feels is most important(love, I Cor. 13, of course) to be an illegitimate pursuit. The passage was used well within that context in the modern application above, considering the current popularity of churches adopting political agendas during services, singing cheesy "praise" songs in the same breath, and all the while mocking principles nearest to the heart of Christ, peace included. I'm afraid that more than hippies are peace-loving, and that we've reached a dark day if Christians feel comfortable openly advocating for avoiding peace and hating our "enemies".
Carson,
I'm shaking my head incredulously.
............................. so, Jules, perhaps you should consider looking into Westminster California instead of TMC?...... Just kidding... (that would mean you would be getting a Reformation Study Bible instead of the Big Mac Study Bible), but the surf is good in San Diego from what I have heard. Something to take into consideration.
Although, if you did go to Westminster, that would make it much more difficult for us to convert you to pre-millennial dispensationalism. On the other hand, there would be a possibility that you would convert us to be amillennial covenantal theologians.
However, I should start working on getting you that Johnny Mac Study Bible if I ever plan to get blogrolled on this site.
Ocean Beach in San Diego will give you a better day surfing than most...but off of the lighthouse in Santa Cruz does, too...
San Diego beaches are just better than the LA area, anyway...free parking, a lot fewer tourists, cooler shops...Even Huntington is kind of becoming a little Disney-esque...
Except for Dwight's (beach food and rentals) on Huntington Beach, which still rocks...
Huntington Beach's water is nasty. Although, it may have gotten better since the last time I went.
My dad grew up on Huntington beach. Right on the boardwalk. Sunny place...
Oops...I mean he grew up on the Newport pier which is for the die-hard surfers only. The Wedge and all...
The Wedge... lol... yeah... you really don't want to surf at The Wedge. The waves are huge, but the water is shallow (not a good combination). It's more for body boarding. Although, the rest of Newport Beach is a decent place to surf.
Send the other ones on the list hunting with Dick Cheney and you will at least get to be Vice President.
W.H.
Good, shake your head, that was the point of the comment.
Conner, not seeing the "modern day application" in that... and you really shouldn't assume to much by throwing Scripture passages around (it helps people turn to the passage and check the context themselves, rather than placing your words above God's whole Word; context is key, as I'm sure you would agree). Granted, we shouldn't "hate" our enemies, but I am tired of all this peace mumbo-jumbo. When Jesus spoke of peace, he was speaking of individual Christian lives... not the role of the government or the actions of a military force.
On a different note, everyone: HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY (or, for many, HAPPY SINGLENESS AWARENESS DAY)! I'm less hyper today, but still, the cookie cake was really good...
Typo: *too (not "to")
Adam,
I'm no fan of scripture flinging, nor am I in a habit of deciding whatever context I choose to place on a passage is suddenly conveniently what it means. I stand by my earlier comments, but we'll agree to disagree and move on in an amicable way...
Julianne,
I got thumped good at the Wedge once and broke a board. T and Z is right...it's good there for boogey boarding, but not my favorite...I prefer OB...
Adam
When Jesus spoke of peace, he was speaking of individual Christian lives... not the role of the government or the actions of a military force.
dido
(sigh...) My point was simply that it's possible and perfectly legitimate to draw general principles from scripture to guide the attitudes and actions of a believer (II Tim. 3:16). I in no way attempted to cite passages which I feel govern how or when military force is used, but rather addressed a pervasive attitude among many Christians that it's ok to hate and despise people, as long as they're our enemies. I'm the first person to examine the context of that which I'm using, and the last to go around judging or beating people with the same. Matthew 5 and Romans 12 speak specifically to the believer's responsibility to his/her enemies, and need little contextualizing. Applying the Word in this manner is in no way controversial, and has always,in fact, been done.
That's great!
Doug
Is it just me, or does it seem like everybody is going circles?
It's just you... :D
No O, I don't believe how one exegetes a passage of Holy scripture is going in circles?
First of all I made a little joke about sniping of 5,816 people so Julianne could be pres. W.H. was the one who started spewing about Bushes spying.
Be that as it may, I don't hate the throat sliters at gitmo. I long for them to repent. Just watch some d.v.d.'s put out by "Voice of The Marters" about the Middle East
Carson,
Fair enough...I kind of feel like moving on...
Julianne, you say...
Oops...I mean he grew up on the Newport pier which is for the die-hard surfers only. The Wedge and all...
I went surfing there in october, why is it for die-hard surfers? And what wedge?
She meant "The Wedge", which is right next to Newport Beach (still considered part of the same beach) is for die-hard surfers only. The reason being that the waves at The Wedge are large, but the water is shallow. Even the best surfers may break their boards or perhaps get injured. It is suited more for body boarders.
North or South of the pier?
South
Frank: Your sister should know The Wedge, she lives close to it.
Julianne: Perhaps the next post should be on surfing.
Happy Chinese New Year!!! (that's what my Panda Express cup said, so I just thought I'd wish one to everybody)
I think the Chinese New Year was two weeks ago.
So, when do we see a new post?
I was about to say something similar... Julianne, don't be me... get to posting, girl (just kidding). By the way, if you do decide to attend TMC, is it next semester that you were looking at coming?
Julianne, make sure you attend next semester. Dispensational theology must be indoctrinated immediately.
So far, Dan, I'm actually only dispensational in the sense of recognizing Israel as a nation (I don't see the church as completely taking the place of Israel). Then again, John Piper also believes that, but I think he believes it will be a remnant and not all of Israel that is saved (a continuity of salvation between the OT and NT). Him and MacArthur certainly differ on many points, but, as of now, I can't tell you for sure who I agree with, since I haven't studied it to the degree I would like to. So, for the record, I can't really say I'm dispensational right now, but I do believe that Israel is distinct from the church.
Dan... you soch a funnie maaan!!!
Adam: Whether one agrees with all the points is not the issue. I have not studied it indepth either, but my point is immediate indoctrination. Was it really funny? The whole point of this comment is to have Julianne post something new. Perhaps, I should start preaching on these comments. Some of my best exhortations are usually posted in these comments and yes, you have my permission to use my quotes for your Bible Study.
Julianne: If you do not post something new, there may be a delay in the shipment of your Johnny Mac Study Bible.
Hey Julianne! Thanks for posting on our blog! It was great to hear from you. God bless! -Natalie
Hey Juli!! I got a blog!! (as you can already tell) Anyway I just thought I would let you know... So I will see ya tonight!!!!!!!
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